A Long-Expected Party

[Elessar]

"When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton."

I've actually got to run out of the house for a few hours, so I can't really put my 2 cents in yet, but I thought I'd start the thread for those who wanted to begin.

So, what did you think of the chapter?

[EldarLOTRfan]

Well, I do hope to say more than this in the coming week, (that is how we are doing this, right?) but after reading this chapter I noticed something I read and passed right by numerous times. It is the conversation right in the beginning of the chapter between the Gaffer and some other hobbits at the Ivy Bush where Gaffer says that Mr. Bilbo learned Sam his letters. Then he makes a comment about warning Sam not to get mixed up with his betters and whatnot.

This is a conversation that seems to establishe a class distinction amongst hobbits, but I did not note before that about the letters.

Does this mean that certain hobbit classes don't learn to read? I mean, no school? What do those children do all day? ;D

 

[Lothiel]

Well, I would assume that since Hobbits seem to be a pastoral community (farming, agricultural) that many of the hobbit children probably end up helping work in the field or in the house; most likely where the parent is teaching their child--who is of appropriate age--the tricks of their trade. I'm thinking, kind of like an apprenticship.

What the young'uns do before that "appropriate age" I would assume is playing games with the other hobbit children.

[Marieke]

I have never heard of a Hobbit school or hobbit teachers, so I assume that the Hobbits who can read or write, have learned it from the other Hobbits who can. Perhaps the Hobbits from less aristocratic families are too busy working to learn. And I think the young Hobbits have lots of games to play to keep themselves busy.

I like this chapter a lot, because it shows the Hobbits before the trouble started. They are all so happy, and the Shire is a wonderful place. It makes me want to be there.

[Elessar]

I had never really given much thought to that statement before... it does seem like it is going on the assumption that many Hobbits probably weren't literate. But that would fit in with their culture of innocent, pastoral life.

I love how this chapter establishes the Hobbits' personalities, in the section in The Ivy Bush especially. I love the Gaffer's character. 

[Linwen]

I like this chapter a lot, because it shows the Hobbits before the trouble started. They are all so happy, and the Shire is a wonderful place. It makes me want to be there.

hmm - you know, that's kind of interesting, because I felt the hobbits were all so - Sackville-Bagginsy - in this chapter...

I read this: 'most people were willing to forgive him his oddities and his good fortune' - Being cross at someone for being luckier than yourself? Certainly, it's only human, but still, it doesn't really fit the image I had before...

So I went looking for more - please forgive me, I'm aware that I'm being a little harsh on the poor little hobbitsies, and - well I did find them...

'He gave away presents to all and sundry - the latter were those who went out again by a back way and came in again by the gate' -- how greedy!

Of course, there's what Bilbo says in his speech - about not liking half of them half as well as they deserve...I suppose, if Bilbo doesn't like them, we don't either...And their reaction to his disappearance - they get angry at him for doing something unusual, when really I think they should be concerned - I mean, how often do you see a flash of light and suddenly there's someone missing?

What they do when Frodo's giving out the presents the day after - taking things that aren't supposed to be presents at all - it equates to stealing, doesn't it?


Then there's one other passage I noticed: While Bilbo seemingly doesn't expect to meet Frodo again, he apparently thinks Frodo's leaving the Shire as well, sooner or later:'he is still in live with the Shire' still ?

I'm not sure if it was ok to post this, and maybe it's just nonsense, and maybe annoying to everybody else , but, now that I thought of it, it bothers me enormously, and I expect I can always delete it?

[Elessar]

Not annoying at all. Interesting point, I've never really thought about that.

I've sort of always thought that the traits that you mentioned point to the almost child-like attributes of Hobbits (coming back through the gate for another present, being upset with Bilbo for doing something "cracked" ). I think that there were probably many Sandymans among the Hobbits but just as many Gaffer Gamgees to counteract them.

[Shieldmaiden]

I really noticed that I missed so much in previous readings myself. I guess thinking about having to talk about it made me look at it closer. I had forgotten all about the tags on the gifts and all of that about the spoons and Lobelia! It was soo funny to read it again!

[MirkwoodArcher]

Having lived amongst people who are exactly like that, I have always taken it for granted. It's the same kind of attitude that makes people fudge the figures on tax forms and take home stationery from work. It's something I associate with townies, but there's no reason why it shouldn't occur in a rural community too. The hobbits haven't had enough danger to make them co-operate as fully as they should.

In the poor mining village where my great grandmother grew up, her family were just about able to get enough food. Any extra they had, they shared with neighbours who had none. As soon as people get affluent, they tend to get selfish and potentially dishonest.

[Marieke]

Maybe the Hobbits just aren't that perfect. But if you have lived in peace with each other for so many years, I don't think that it makes the Hobbits bad. If humans aren't able to live a couple of years without war, I think the hobbits are doing way better. And maybe they can accept more than humans, so it's not that bad if there are Sandymen and Sackvile-Bagginses.

[Mirkgirl]

Firstly... on the schools and such...

from Prologue, Concerning Hobbits
They do not and did not understand or like machines more complicated than a forge-bellows, a water-mill, or a hand-loom, though they were skilful with these tools
.........
All Hobbits were, in any case, clannish and reckoned up their relationships with great care. They drew long and elaborate family trees wth innumerable branches.

While the first quote could make us think that most hobbits didn't need to know their letters, the other proves that there were quite many hobbits which could read and write enough to make an elaborate familytrees... did families like the Gaffer's not have family trees?

I can understand why Sam didn't need to know how to read and write. He was going to inherit the Gaffer's work (note that in beginning of LotR he is already taking on most of Gaffers work and he is younger than Frodo... he must have been well under 20 that time and already a skilled gardener... you don't learn these stuff by books... and also we have to understand that the world of hobbits didn't use that many inscriptions... I mean if you can't read now you can hardly shop in a big store, but the hobbits didn't need to read labels

I don't think there was a school as such tho. School => Education => Progress => Elaborate machines and we don't have that. Maybe the older ones taught them to read and write, just as Bilbo did with Sam and just as some Brandybuck did with Frodo before (I guess)

It's funny that you bring up the Q about how imperfect the hobbits are... I was just thinking that reading the first chapter... how Tolkien's world is maybe so great because it's imperfect... no race is great and perfect... the elves shed rivers of blood for some gems... even the Valar and Maiar didn't always act in best interest of ME. I think that's another reason why we love the book... no one is perfect in it. Aragorn is torn by self-doubt. Frodo is just a little hobbit and his companion is a mere gardener who cannot place even the one ring higher than his master. The noble warrior Boromir is corrupted so easily. Gandalf is almost too late, trusts Saruman, chooses not the best of way... etc etc etc... we don't have the perfection... what we do have is people who try to do their best.

If you're still reading.. for now I just want to say one thing... I really love "the road goes ever on and on"... I know it by heart in both Bulgarian and English and like to tell it to myself sometimes.

I'll shut up now (:

P.S. sorry for the long post... just one more thing... have you noticed that the Gaffer calls Bilbo a "gentlehobbit"... just mentioning it as there were debates whether Aragorn should have called the hobbits "gentlehobbits" or "gentlemen" as he does in FotR movie

[EldarLOTRfan]

Also in this chapter the invitations get sent out, and all are eagerly awaiting theirs in the mail! So, maybe the learning his letters, followed by more comments about Elves and Dragons, could also mean listening to tales and other such things.

Just a thought. I am not really going anywhere with it.

This chapter gives us plenty of background about hobbits and their habits. hehe

I especially enjoy the detailed description of Gandalf's fireworks!!

I also noticed that in the movie we had Merry and Pippin getting some attention with the dragon firework, but the book, though it is a dance on a table while Bilbo's speech pauses, is done by a Took and a Brandybuck! Which Merry and Pippin are, right? These are Master Everard Took and Miss Melilot Brandybuck.

A great chapter.

Can we talk about it all week? Or are we moving on?

 

[Elessar]

All this week, until we start the next chapter next Sunday.

EldarLOTRfan said:

I especially enjoy the detailed description of Gandalf's fireworks!!

I love how Tolkien doesn't back down from long descriptions and lists! Like when Bilbo is addressing all the Hobbit families at the party. And the section where it described the notes Bilbo left on different "presents" is hilarious! ... I can't see how anyone can say Tolkien didn't have a sense of humor.

[Mirkgirl]

Even though they're long they still manage to keep it interesting... I didn;t get the urge to miss the long descriptions (I confess I often do with other books)

mmm something more on the literate hobbit from the prologue

By no means all Hobbits were lettered, but those who were wrote constantly to all their friends (and a selection of their relations) who lived further off than an afternoon's walk.

Another interesting thing in this chapter is the ring... the way Bilbo changes because of it, and we have Gandalf refusing to keep the ring: "No, don't give the ring to me. Put it on the mantelpiece. It will be safe enough there till Frodo comes." Gotta love the little details that Tolkien uses to show the power of the ring and the fear it causes in Gandalf.

[EldarLOTRfan]

I knew I should have read the prologue! ;D

I know I have read it before, but I skipped over it to be ready to discuss the chapter. Oops!  

However, I too enjoy Mr. Tolkien's details. They are delightfully detailed, with many doses of humor included.

[Elessar, that is the first time I have heard someone suggest that Mr. Tolkien did not have a sense of humor. That is surely another topic entirely, sorry.]